Cash- or point-based premium access system

Dakoom

You know, something like Ultimate Points System or Caramel Virtual Cash in phpBB. Or something like this one in XenForo: https://brivium.com/resources/credits-premium.36/. It would be great! What do you think? 🙂

failedfetus

I usually put a point system in any forum I use. Especially if I can make a store too. I would love it if the point system was pre-made into it. :3

Dakoom

A premade one would be great!

huobazi

Prosperous

This will definitely suit a project I am trying to launch. I have never seen a perfect implementation of this to date, whether it be an extension/plug-in or not.

What are the chances of this become an official extension created by the Flarum staff but available as an option only and not part of the core installation?

BlackSheep

Prosperous None.

Dominion

I've changed the title of this discussion so it will be more apparent what is being discussed here.

I'm also interested in seeing such a system made available, as I think I'd want to use it in one forum site I'm planning.

Prosperous I have never seen a perfect implementation of this to date ...

I'd love to see some more detailed discussion of how such a "premium access" system should work. What struck you as less-than-perfect about the implementations mentioned in the OP? How can those problems be improved?

Padrio

A wonderfull idea, but please create an own plugin for the shop

Dakoom

BlackSheep Why?

luceos

Dakoom read this for example

Prosperous

luceos I don't mean to have it in the core of Flarum; I mean have it developed/created and maintained by Toby and Franz (or an official staff extension team) as an official extension.

I am weary when it comes to installing too many third party extensions. And based on past experiences I have had with numerous extensions and plugins from other forums, people come and go so keeping their extensions up to date cannot really be relied upon.

I don't trust too many people on the internet basically. Extensions like this one would definitely need proper care.

luceos

I totally understand your point. Working for a webhosting company I have seen the chaos bad wordpress plugins can cause 😉

However, my opinion (which I must confess is very strong) is that both core devs should focus on making Flarum at its core the best forum software and ensuring it is peanuts to extend. At this point, a lot of this is already achieved.

In order to prevent insecure or badly programmed extensions, a good rating system should be in place in the coming marketplace. Also I wouldn't completely reject the idea of actually having peer reviews in place.

In the end a healthy community containing plenty of active extension developers is a must, because two people can never generate the extensions needed to cover all feature requests 🙂

But, in the end.. these are just my two cents.

jordanjay29

luceos I echo these sentiments as well. Core devs should focus on core, and make extensions if they have time/desire. The community is here to make the superfluous (which, no offense, this one is) extensions that people want.

Prosperous

luceos I don't doubt any of that at all. It really just comes down to the fact of devoting so much time and work to planning, organising, creating and launching a project using such extensions to only find out later down the track that the extension creator has had a change of interest and will no longer support or actively develop that extension.

I've been caught out in a very similar situation before and would hate for it to happen again; especially on the level I plan to use Flarum for. And I don't just support an 'official' cash/points extension, but the same for other common features such as private messages, attachments, etc. They don't have to be released with the core forum on install, but they should be made by official Flarum staff members for peace of mind, trust, reliability, active development and stability.

Perhaps something that can be added to the pipeline?

May be I'm being a bit too cautious and needy...

jordanjay29

Prosperous Why don't you offer a cash incentive for someone to build such an extension, and open license the code? That way, if the original creator leaves, you can find/hire someone to take up the maintenance of the code.

Prosperous

jordanjay29 I might just do that actually. Once there is a stable release of Flarum and things are more clear as to where everything is headed then I'll definitely put a price to get such an extension created.

We'll see what happens when the time comes. Thank you for the suggestion.

Prosperous

I'm really glad that this is being bumped back up as it's definitely something I will be actively moving forward with once we are closer to getting a stable release (and especially after completing my new computer build). The project I am planning to launch will also be taking full advantage of such a system so having something set in stone that is not only created but regularly maintained will become a necessity sooner than later.

There are far too many examples of cash/points/shop modifications (or in Flarum's case, extensions) that have been less than appealing or at the very least being extremely short-lived. I have been using different forum software for a number of years now and have tried my hand at basically all options provided for IP.Board, SMF, phpBB and even MyBB; all of which have looked good on paper but lacked in far too many ways to list here on this topic for the time-being. And by that, I don't only mean specific features.

You have mentioned premium access, by that I assume a fee or charge of some sort to gain access to such an extension? Or perhaps you mean Flarum developing the extension and charging to have it installed on an instance of Flarum? Either way it would not only assist in funding Flarum but would ensure that the extension is created, maintained and offered directly from the source, which I mention on purpose. As a consumer, I want peace of mind that something is there for the long run, or at least not ignored. If I had the know-how and experience to develop such a thing then by all means I'd give it a go but I'm one of the majority who requires such a thing. When I mentioned source, I literally mean Flarum. Not one member of the team, but whoever is, or is to become, a member of the team. It may be a lot to ask and that would bring me to my next point.

As I have explained prior, I'd be more than happy to pay for this to become a reality. But without this post sounding too much like a sales pitch, I'll cut to the chase and provide things I would expect. @Dakoom has mentioned Brivium's Credits Premium add-on. It does look fairly extensive and full on but I cannot really comment on how it would work as I haven't used it in conjunction with my XenForo forum. This topic is more about a made up points system and not one that would take into account PayPal accounts, currencies, etc.

Things to be expected in such an extension;

A way to accumulate points per topic and post.
A shop listing where members can spend their points to purchase particular services, products, perks; basically anything you want. All of which would be added by the administrator.
An inventory listing of things a member "owns" or has purchased.
Possibly a subscription service.
The usual administrative features where points can be awarded or removed by those with the privileges to do so. For example, awarding a member for writing a good post or withholding points for whatever reason.
It would have to be simple and easy to use to sit in line with Flarum's approach and goal.
Maintenance and upkeep to be made a priority to ensure quality.

These are of course points that have just come from the top of my head at this hour of the night (or shall I say morning), but you should get my gist. I know I'm not the only one that would really like to see this request become a reality so I'll let someone else chime in.

Dominion

Thanks for responding in such detail.

Prosperous You have mentioned premium access, by that I assume a fee or charge of some sort to gain access to such an extension? Or perhaps you mean Flarum developing the extension and charging to have it installed on an instance of Flarum? Either way it would not only assist in funding Flarum but would ensure that the extension is created, maintained and offered directly from the source, which I mention on purpose.

I was not talking about access to the extension ... that sort of thing should be covered by the Flarum Marketplace, which will presumably include some sort of mechanism for licensing the use of extensions on a paid basis.

By "premium access" I was referring to the function of the extension: to grant users access to certain content and/or features in exchange for cash or points. I'm thinking in particular of a scenario where some areas of the forum would be visible to the general public, and other areas (i.e. specific tags) would be restricted to members who have paid some sort of subscription fee. I guess you could call it a freemium forum. Or would that be ... freemiorum? ?

Prosperous Things to be expected in such an extension;

Your list seems fairly comprehensive ... though I would like to add the following:

Notifications to the member (purchase confirmation, subscription renewal reminders, etc.)
Notifications to the admin (for bookkeeping purposes)

Also, it might be a good idea to outline the sort of "things" that a member could "own" in somewhat greater detail. I'm guessing some of those "things" will be easier to implement than others.

For example, the scenario I described above would require the "premium access" extension to automatically grant the user access to certain tags when a subscription fee is paid, and revoke that access when the subscription lapses. That should be easy enough to achieve by creating a "premium member" group with the increased privileges, then simply moving members into and out of that group as necessary.

But there might be other premium features that would require this extension to be dependent on other extensions, or vice versa. It would be hard to say for sure unless we have a good idea what sort of "things" we want users to be able to purchase (or subscribe to).

luceos

I'd seriously consider putting in writing the exact details of functionality. Stuff like "Possibly a subscription service" are the worst nightmare for any developer, because it clearly communicates an expectancy, but not what is expected.

Aside from that, much of what Prosperous describes is shooting left and right. From my point of view the extension has no clear goal, it has to do lots and lots of random - yet unrelated - things.. For instance is it responsible for points or is it a shop or ..

My suggestion is to start with the bare minimum, create an extension for that and then consider new features. Either as new functionality of this existing extension or as an addon. The bare minimum in this case - from my point of view - would resolve around this comment:

A way to accumulate points per topic and post.

Prosperous

Dominion I thought I would get the ball rolling.

I get it! That's definitely something I was thinking along the lines of as well. Haha, freemiorum is a mouthful.

I've mentioned quite a few things but they were merely just ideas I was throwing to the table to grow discussion on the subject. Everyone's ideas/expectations of this extension will always be different and Flarum owners would have a million uses for the system so having it adapt to the majority of scenarios would not only be ideal for the "extension", but indeed for Flarum too (I've seen way too many situations where potential members have moved to a completely different forum software when they discover this system is either outdated or just doesn't exist at all). It is great for business to not only attract new customers but to retain existing ones too. I won't be the only one that notices the increase. It's a modification that sits fairly high in the list in my opinion and if it was made a reality, the numbers would speak for itself.

Without giving too much away I will provide a basic outline of what I would use such a system for my own project. I plan to release a hosting service. My members would go about their daily posting which in turn would earn them points that they can spend to not only pay for their monthly hosting costs, but for additional features, resources and forum perks. I will get onto luceos' post in a moment, but I do agree that we would need to start small and eventually develop the extension to suit the needs of those that use it. I wouldn't expect a complete package straight from the get-go but providing a way to earn points, a place to spend those points and a place to moderate those points and purchases (both on customer and administrator levels) would be the place to start. I mean, why accumulate points when you cannot use them?

Thanks for the prompt reply though @Dominion.

luceos I definitely intend to once the time comes. It's good to discuss pros, cons and expectations on the board as it would single out similarities which would provide the path to have something like this properly created.

Your second paragraph is a little confusing. Why would you create an extension to accumulate points yet have nowhere to spend those points? The extension would be redundant. Perhaps the title needs working on but a shop and points system would work hand in hand. Having one without the other (unless you incorporate a real money wallet to purchase items from a shop) is basically pointless.

If you actually mean starting from the bare minimum for development, then that's a whole different story. I would 100% support a milestone-type set up as Flarum runs for its own releases. Goals or targets during development can be listed and marked off as they are progressed.

Loving the attention this is receiving guys, keep it up. ?