differences between languages make some phrases difficult to translate

jacko

Differences between languages make some phrases difficult to translate.
It is particularly difficult with word YOU. In English you have this:

1.
I like this post.
This post was liked by me.

2.
You like this post.
This post was liked by you.

3.
He likes this post.
This post was liked by him.

As you can see above, there are: 1. "I / me", 2. "you / you", 3. "he / him".

In case number 2 (you/you) English has exactly the same word for two different situations. In other languages there are different "you". I hope I made my case clear by giving the examples above.

It makes it particularly difficult for phrases with likes and post mentions that include "You".

If this could be sorted, it would help with translations to French (Tu / Toi), German (Du, Dich), Polish (Ty, Ciebie) and possibly many other languages

Dominion

Thanks for bringing this up ... I'm planning on reviewing the extensions in the near future, and this is certainly an issue that I'll need to keep in mind.

In fact, I'll make an issue about it ~~now~~ after I've had a bit of time to carefully consider all the implications...

jacko

Dominion In fact, I'll make an issue about it now after I've had a bit of time to carefully consider all the implications...

This is a tricky one, as it requires thinking in different language than English and adjusting the actual code accordingly.

Dominion

jacko This is a tricky one, as it requires thinking in different language than English and adjusting the actual code accordingly.

It's not really all that tricky, compared to some things that languages can do.

Check out this thread for example. 😉

Dominion

@jacko It would help a lot if you could list the exact phrases that you're having difficulty with.

I've had a look at the Likes extension (which is the source of the phrases you used in your examples) and it looks as though @Toby has done a good job of sidestepping the issue there by using the second person pronoun only as the subject of the sentence. (The same is true of the Mentions extension.) Which means that translators should be able to avoid the issue you're describing by simply avoiding the passive voice.

So I'm wondering if there is some reason you can't avoid the passive ... or if you're having a problem with something other than the Likes extension.

Please be specific, and feel free to include examples from the language you're trying to translate into.

jacko

Dominion It would help a lot if you could list the exact phrases that you're having difficulty with.

Here are examples related to mentions translations:

Polish phrase - English phrase

“Odpowiedziałeś na to” - “You replied to this” (notice there’s no ‘you' in Polish in this case)
“Peter odpowiedział na to” - “Peter replied to this"
“Ty i Peter odpowiedzieliście na to” - “You and Peter replied to this"
“Peter i Paul odpowiedzieli na to”- “Peter and Paul replied to this"

As you can see above one phrase post_mentioned_by is insufficient for Polish translation.
It could be fixed if there were separate phrases for:

post_mentioned_by_self
post_mentioned_by_one_person
post_mentioned_by_self_and_others
post_mentioned_by_multiple_people

offtopic: I read somewhere that Polish is the most difficult language to learn in the world...

Dominion

Thank you for the examples!

jacko “Odpowiedziałeś na to” - “You replied to this” (notice there’s no ‘you' in Polish in this case)

This case is covered for the Likes extension, and we've had a request to do the same for Mentions. See this issue.

jacko “Ty i Peter odpowiedzieliście na to” - “You and Peter replied to this"
“Peter i Paul odpowiedzieli na to”- “Peter and Paul replied to this"

Ahh, I was wondering if there would be a difference in the plural form when the first person is included. That's very good to know. This is definitely something we can fix.

But these examples don't seem to relate at all to the problem you described in the OP ... Is it possible to get by without using any passives, then?

jacko offtopic: I read somewhere that Polish is the most difficult language to learn in the world...

I've heard that, but then I've heard the same thing about many languages. Navajo is pretty tough too. 😉

jacko

Dominion Is it possible to get by without using any passives, then?

After seeing not so good Polish translation I prematurely made the first post here thinking that passive was the problem without actually analyzing the issue. I apologize - there is a lot on my head at the moment. The other post with examples relates better to what I wanted to point out.

Dominion

jacko Okay, thanks for the clarification. We certainly do need to offer separate strings for cases where the second person pronoun appears as the subject, both alone and with others. I'll create an issue for that.