Ajax me, please (‘cause I grew up in the 90s)

010101

Websockets, pusher, whatever comes out next year... they’re cool. But for someone on shared hosting who has a forum that barely gets traffic, can we get some old school Ajax magic up in here? Because for example, I don’t need instant real-time stuff. But, certain things updating with Ajax maybe every minute or two might be nice.

Some people want a Tesla, some just want a bicycle.

clarkwinkelmann

010101 Flarum is a javascript single page app entirely powered by a REST API (+ pre loading for performance). I think that qualifies as all ajax (?)

Flarum (or core extensions) don't use polling because it doesn't make sense when websockets are much more efficient, but you can poll your own API if you want and have the server resources for it.

What are you trying to make that might not be possible?

luceos

010101 Websockets, pusher, whatever comes out next year... they’re cool.

Pusher is a commercial company providing a websocket service. I've been playing with pusher ever since pusher came into existence (2011). The websocket standard was standardized in the same year. Websockets allow for a realtime connection, something that a usual html + ajax stack can never compare to.

Websockets are really just a tool, as much as javascript and xhr (ajax) are. I understand that it might make sense to request xhr support and honestly, this might even be possible. But Flarum is about providing a modern community framework and as such offering a nearly realtime interaction with your community is the way forward. Polling with xhr has always been a nasty hack to fix the realtime problem, similar to how 1px transparent gifs were used to solve spacing issues.

Someone might still create an extensions that adds polling functionality with xhr. But my vote inside the core team to bundle something would be against. Our goal is to build an awesome framework that is fast but also doesn't consume bandwidth unnecessarily.

010101

clarkwinkelmann Flarum is a javascript single page app entirely powered by a REST API (+ pre loading for performance). I think that qualifies as all ajax (?)

Good point.

A chat room is what prompted this post. I was just once again looking at the real time chat extension that’s out there and was dreaming of messing around with it. But, I can’t do Websockets. I guess there’s Pusher free plan. Still... Just thinking/wishing about other options.🤔

The point of my post was to say hey 👋, sometimes there’s super small almost non-existent forums out there. Sometimes the people who run them aren’t in a position to always do the latest and greatest (Websockets). And so, I just wonder if one day someone would experiment with some type of chat or private messaging that’s like the good old Ajax chat scripts. Example: https://github.com/Frug/AJAX-Chat

I personally can’t do it. You know, I’m just your typical code beggar I suppose. 🥺

Side note: If “code beggar” isn’t a thing (phrase) that is used, it should be.

For some lower class web hobbyists like me, we don’t care if an ajax chat would make the site crash if 50 people were using it. Because we’ll never have 50 people at our forum at the same time. 🙃 And if we ever do, then it would be time AT THAT POINT (and only at that point) to get really nice VPS hosting or managed hosting, or even a dedicated server, and go the Websockets route and stuff like that.

I admire the developers here because usually the focus is to create extensions that even a huge company could use. Extensions that have little limits. That’s amazing. It’s why I’m a big Flarum fan. But, every now and then I post something like this, and/or you’ll see someone else drop by and post something like this, because we’re thinking: why can’t we have all the real time features too? Without Websockets? Without Pusher? It was done in the good old days.

And you still can if you use older forum software or WP. But, I want to use Flarum.

Another example, which I used at a WP site once: https://wordpress.org/plugins/wise-chat/

I’ve rambled enough. I should count my blessings that I can at least install Flarum and appreciate what I’ve got! 😆

010101

luceos Someone might still create an extensions that adds polling functionality with xhr.

This was the main point of my post. I know this type of coding would never be in core. Or, even in most extensions. I still say there’s a place for it though. For “the little guy/gal.”

For now, the “little guy/gal” will have to make do with what they can get.

I’m not sure why I even post these types of posts here. I really need to learn to not post these old coding technique suggestions. Because this isn’t that kind of software or community. And that’s fine. 👍

luceos

Pusher has a free tier called sandbox for up to 100 concurrent connections and 200.000 messages a day. You can build extensions with that too, their dashboard is awesome as you can debug messages and connections there. This tier is also sufficient for most (if not all) little guys/gals?

https://pusher.com/channels/pricing

Aka, why don't you sign up with them and configure the bundled pusher extension to see how that goes?

010101

luceos why don't you sign up with them and configure the bundled pusher extension to see how that goes?

I have and might again. I think the last time I used the Pusher extension it caused a conflict with another extension I really wanted to use, so I deactivated Pusher. It probably works by now. But, it’s also the third party piece.

pupsik

I agree on this one. lets take a good old fashion IPB 1.3 https://web.archive.org/web/20120720050406/http://www.vipjournal.net/ - use to be my project . That thing had shit ton of addons and features. Chat addon, was a real time chat, without any helpers, user PMs no helpers. Nothing. Same as phpfox 1.6 Konsert, design was unbelievable. Features through the roof. All Stand Alone.

Problem is that they too went main stream with outside helpers, and now, they useless.

I'm afraid same is going to happen with flarum. Soon, you not gonna be able to post a picture without outside extension from Twitter/Facebook/google.

010101

pupsik I'm afraid same is going to happen with flarum. Soon, you not gonna be able to post a picture without outside extension from Twitter/Facebook/google.

😁 I don’t think that’ll happen. It’s just the really intensive, resource hogging stuff that has gone the way of something like Websockets (or a Websockets service like Pusher). Which I get. It makes sense for large communities.

This was just a random thought. Truth be told... I don’t NEED a chat room. Or private messaging for that matter. They are a nice to have, but that’s all.

Kulga

Could always use something like Converse.js and embed a pop up chatroom.
Really wouldn't suggest it for mobile, but it is a fun little hack to have instant anonymous groupchats.