10 days later

Hi everyone, I'm a bit worried that Flarum development is stagnating again. It's been two months since the 1.0 release and after a few bug fixes there hasn't been any concrete progress, from what I can tell from watching the GitHub repositories.

@davwheat has been doing a good job with frontend fixes and accessibility, but apart from that I don't think I'm seeing things moving? Is perhaps Flarum missing core developers? That's always been my feeling... @askvortsov was doing an amazing job to push things forward, but I guess he's busy with studies now.

To be clear, I perfectly understand why this could be the case, I've been having periods where I have a lot of time to spend on side projects, while in other periods I don't even have time to breathe. I'm wondering though if Flarum has a plan to cope with this (I'm pretty sure I've already asked this before 😅). There's a growing interest around Flarum, and the activity on this forum confirms that, but I don't see the same activity around the actual development. And there's definitely still *a lot* of work to do. I can see some important changes started with PRs on core, but many of them seem abandoned, there's code that has been work in progress for more than a year... 🤔 Many issues about basic forum features have been there literally for years.

And again I want to make this clear: I perfectly understand that this is probably normal for an open source project, but is Flarum going to evolve to something more than that? As you know, there are other forum platforms where development is much more active, and not a day goes by without a commit. Will we ever see that? 😃

    Hi Matteo,

    We have taken one cycle for people to do something else than Flarum. Having worked towards stable, pushing ourselves has caused some fatigue. We are in the process of planning the kick off meeting for v1.1 and are going to discuss the roadmap towards v2.0 soon after.

    Yes, we are silent, yes there's little activity. Because it is intentional. And still, we released 4 patch versions with another one already in the pipeline.

    I hope you understand. We are not going anywhere, we only lowered our activity for one build cycle.

      davwheat yeah I look there sometimes, but I've always seen many (most?) issues moved to the next milestone when approaching the release... Now that stable has been reached, maybe it would be a good time to review Toby's famous roadmap? I don't know if there's something more up-to-date than that.

      Just to know, for example, if I can expect a new search system in 2021 or 2023 😅 I hope these messages don't sound rude, I obviously have a lot of respect for all your work, but after having run Flarum in production for 4 years I don't know how to answer common complaints from my users anymore. I get questions like "when will search actually work?" or observation on how terrible the mobile UI is all the time, and I can only tell them that it will change, maybe, at some point...

        meetdilip I wasn't referring to releases or its count, but to the approach of development. I was interested to know if there's a plan to make development a bit more, I don't know, organized. For example, I remember that Franz was paid for the work and could spend a fixed amount of hours per week to bring things forward and coordinate the development. So that if anyone else is busy, gets a new job, or whatever, there's still someone that doesn't rely on free time to move Flarum forward and not take 2 years for small things. I don't think I'm alone in this thought...

          matteocontrini Hi everyone, I'm a bit worried that Flarum development is stagnating again. It's been two months since the 1.0 release

          I read only this much 🙂

            Ok, thank you, I guess I'll avoid giving feedback next time... I'll keep contributing financially to the extent that I can, since I know that's the best way to help.

              You mistook me. Feedback is always welcome.

              But the first line sounded very cruel. Flarum team worked tirelessly for around a year to bring out Stable. Don't you think it is very deserving to get some rest?

              Also, 4 minor releases does not sound bad, right ? Obviously, they were not sleeping tightly.

              I have no intention to discredit you. It simply sounded as mentioned above " cruel ".

                matteocontrini I don't know where this comes from. Are you that disappointed at us taking a break after stable? You've been around almost as long as I am, you've seen the hardships that we've went through to get stable shipped.

                I know Flarum isn't perfect yet, trust me it will never be; at least not to the taste of everyone. But we're doing our best to pave the way in becoming the most extensible and empowering community framework that exists. It will take time, because that is what volunteers are dedicating to the project.

                I am not entirely sure paying people (again) to get it forward will help; a noticeable drawback in our previous arrangements implied reduced activity outside of those paid hours. I still hope we can contract people full time again in the future. Right now our focus should be in planning v1.1 and v2.0 now that stable is out.

                Thanks for all you do, it hasn't gone unnoticed. I, personally, am very grateful for all your contributions here on discuss, but also on GitHub.

                    meetdilip that wanted to be just an objective observation of the lower activity, which luceos then confirmed. The message then went on with saying that it's perfectly ok to have some periods with lower activity, but I was also asking if Flarum will keep being developed as a "classic" open source project where core developers contribute when they can. I got the answer and that's okay, I'm sorry if I used the wrong words.

                    luceos Are you that disappointed at us taking a break after stable?

                    No, honestly I didn't understand there was a break until you told me today. But that was just the prompt for a wider discussion, that maybe is out of scope here.

                    luceos I am not entirely sure paying people (again) to get it forward will help

                    This helps clarifying and it's one of the things I was curious about, although it's not my business. And if I "complain" it's because I want to see things work well... As you say I've been around for a while and I hoped that this feedback could be taken as a friendly discussion on how things are going with Flarum, but I've seen the opposite. It was probably my mistake to put it the way I put it (and the language barrier doesn't help), so I guess I'll think twice before starting a discussion next time 😅

                            I can understand certain points of @matteocontrini, especially in his case since he has been using Flarum in production for quite some time and maybe there are things that have frustrated him, but I think Flarum in this last year has had to fix a lot of internal things, something that is not as flashy as a new interface or features, but the development until stable has been frenetic worthy of any top software, for me even too much for such a small team so it's logical fatigue and a break was needed.

                            I really love open source as it is what has made Flarum what it's today, but I certainly look forward to the time when Flarum will find strong supporters, both to accelerate and ensure sustainable development for the future, also precisely for this reason I wish @luceos all the best with Blomstra, I believe that projects like this and strong supporters will really take Flarum to another level, but of course this will take time.

                            luceos most extensible and empowering community framework

                            P.S. I really like that you talk about framework instead of just forum, definitely Flarum is evolving in that direction.

                                matteocontrini I think you've been absolutely correct in opening a discussion, it speaks for your dedication towards Flarum. I actually announced the break in the OP:

                                luceos but first we'll take a bit of time off to relax after our months of effort in releasing stable

                                I must confess this statement is far too vague, even for me 🙈

                                matteocontrini This helps clarifying and it's one of the things I was curious about, although it's not my business.

                                Don't undersell yourself, we are trying as much as we can to be an open, transparent organisation. These questions are always valued, even when they hit a weakness in the project.

                                Darkle P.S. I really like that you talk about framework instead of just forum, definitely Flarum is evolving in that direction.

                                Towards stable it has become easier to see what our purpose is and where we fit into the community market. It might be harder to understand for some, but the further Flarum matures the more it will make sense.

                                          luceos @matteocontrini

                                          I’ll undersell myself and start by saying I’m definitely not important here. But I like to give my 2 cents even when people don’t want it. So, here:

                                          My thoughts are that @matteocontrini should never stop or refrain from giving feedback because he gives solid feedback.

                                          Also, my thoughts are from a little community webmaster’s perspective (my perspective), I’m so happy there’s been a break. For an average person, it can get exhausting updating all the time. In fact, I got scared when I read things that made it sound like we’ll go from 1.0 to 1.1, 1.2, and so on possibly quickly. Yikes. Hopefully I can keep up. 😅

                                          On the other hand, keeping things progressing and updated is important for security, browser compatibility, and it’s important to people with more coding and web dev knowledge than me. 😁

                                          So, as with everything… Flarum will have this battle forever. How much is too much as far as updates? How much is not enough?

                                              010101 But I like to give my 2 cents even when people don’t want it.

                                              That's not true, it's always nice to read your messages and you're always too kind 😁 and your writing style is somehow fascinating, I don't know if I'm the only one noticing this... 😅

                                                meetdilip Also, 4 minor releases does not sound bad, right ?

                                                They're not minor releases, they're patch releases. Patch releases does not indicate progress, because they do not bring any new features, only important bugfixes. So this argument does not make much sense, because it actually confirms what @matteocontrini is saying. 😉

                                                    I want to ask a question to the core team, does Flarum block Google's FLoC tracking system by default? I may have missed it if it was discussed, I apologize for that.