This software NEEDS Plugins not a v2.0!

huseyinfiliz

MrCaspan While I agree with some of the things you’ve said, I’d like to point out that most of the extensions with financial commitments have been updated, resulting in some great extensions.

I see that you mentioned you would sponsor the updates of some extensions before, but I would recommend making a commitment for this.

I’d like to remind you that I’m not writing this to criticize you, but with good intentions, and I’m suggesting it because I think it could help you.

Circa

This seems more like the extensions you specifically are wanting updated aren't being worked on anymore, meanwhile the extensions for Flarum overall are still thriving just fine from my observations. However I have noticed they are being updated a bit less over the last few months because of the 2.0 development, not only from FoF but everyone else just because they're in this limbo stage of waiting for 2.0 to release or working on 2.0 specific versions of plugins.

Looking at your profile, you seem to be wanting that event calendar extension updated but the creator hasn't been working on it, which has nothing to do with FoF or Flarum's team. If an extension is dead, it might be better to create a new bounty for a new extension to be made, or forked from the existing one if it is on Github (sounds like that one is). But that also doesn't guarantee it will be done either.

To address your main point though, I do think a 2.0 is needed with the reasons they've laid out for why they are doing it, and one of those is to include new features in Flarum rather than extensions. I'd rather the core software be more stable and offer more out of the box than relying on tons of extensions, because then you run into the very problem you have with the creators disappearing and you are SOL. (though I understand this is not the main point of 2.0, just my thoughts on Flarum's further development in general).

davetodave178

MrCaspan I understand your frustration, and I appreciate your passion for Flarum. However, I want to clarify a few things.

MrCaspan Again I have been willing to pay to have plugins updated to do certain features and no one answers the posts in the discussions.

Financial contributions are appreciated, but open-source development isn't as simple as just funding a feature. They don’t automatically guarantee immediate development or a response. Custom development takes time, resources, and expertise, and sometimes the amount offered does not align with the effort required. If you have specific business-critical needs, you might want to consider hiring a developer or company specializing in Flarum extension development.

MrCaspan My biggest fear is that 2.0 is coming out which will kill all the existing plugins and then what do we have?

This is highly unlikely. We are still early in the 2.x upgrade cycle. Many more upgrades are to come here, but there is only so much time for open source contributors to tackle this, so please be patient.

MrCaspan It's at best alpha level software based on its lack of plugins and themes

Flarum is far beyond an alpha-stage project. There are over 800 extensions listed on Flarum.org from dozens over dozens of different contributors. Many of those extensions are running in forums for enterprise customers today.

MrCaspan Some discussions have been silent (not form users but by the devs) for a year..

I understand that unanswered discussions can be frustrating. We have to prioritize critical issues, which means some discussions may not receive immediate attention.

Flarum 2.x is a step in the right direction, bringing the framework to the next level for years to come. We appreciate your enthusiasm for Flarum, and we’re committed to making the ecosystem stronger with each update.

MrCaspan

Please don't get we wrong... but it just feels like a ghost town in this forum that does not mean it is.. maybe I am leaning too much on the Open Source community and expect more then I should..

I get your points above.. but to say there are 800 extensions is pushing it a bit.. 70% of them seem to be themes that are cookie cutter and one color changed is the only difference. There are extensions I agree, and the ones that FoF make are so needed and welcomed.. but it really fells like that is it. The most popular extension don't seem to be getting any more updates.. or taking requests from users.. Again I get busy with 2.0.. just sucks to have software that "seems" to be getting no updates at all or new extensions created for it!

And once 2.0 releases i hope the extension get more attention before the work on 3.0 starts or else the cycle will just continue! I know Flaurm is relying on the open source community to help with some of these plugins and hey if I had the skills I would contribute but the documentation is really hard to understand and i have been a hobby programmer for 30+ years with CGI, PHP, JS no one of this new Larval stuff that is I know way better but makes it so much more complicated to get started! its a real learning curve!

I don't know maybe I am used to other platforms that have more and what do I want for free! It just feels dead around here, and I hope I am wrong but the place does not feel active!!

huseyinfiliz

I'm not writing this as a formal answer, but rather as a note I hope every forum administrator reading this discussion will see.

For any open-source developer, the possibility of creating extensions that meet the real needs of forum administrators and are embraced by major communities is a true source of inspiration. I share this sentiment wholeheartedly.

For the past few months, I've been deeply involved in developing extensions. Believe me, the donations and rewards I've received so far barely cover even one percent of the countless hours I've poured into this work. Initially, I developed extensions for my own forum and freely shared them with everyone. But now, I'm working on extensions that I will never even use myself. My motivation comes solely from my admiration for Flarum’s passion, and from a desire to contribute something meaningful to the community.

Ultimately, my message to forum administrators is simple: please be more active in the proposals section. Extension developers are not inclined to spend hours on projects that no one will ever use or that fail to address a real need. Your proactive engagement is what truly makes a difference.

Proposals

These are entirely my personal views, and my aim is not to criticize anyone but simply to share my thoughts.

clarkwinkelmann

The reason the FriendsOfFlarum group came together was to take upon the maintenance of popular abandoned extensions during the Flarum beta cycle and later the 1.0 stable release.

The main goal was not to improve those extensions, but guarantee they continue to work with newer Flarum versions and be secure and performant. Some new features were released, mostly based on very high demand or community sponsors, as developer availability allowed.

Luckily, once Flarum 1.0 was released, the extensions required a lot less maintenance to keep them working. That's why the FoF group has been more dormant recently, the mission does not call for a lot of action.

I am sure that once 2.0 is released, FriendsOfFlarum will rise again to make sure the most loved extensions continue to work with the latest Flarum version. And if it's not FoF itself, other people will pick up those extensions, just like it happened on the 1.0 release. There are a lot more users and developers now than there were back then, so it's bound to happen.

Now for a more personal note, I do have some concerns with some FoF extensions as well. I have seen the amount of bug reports rise, and it can be quite a daunting task to go and investigate each individual report. One problem is that some of these new bugs are a result of the new features that have been contributed, and while I was personally implicated in porting these extensions to beta and stable versions, I never familiarized myself with the new features nor have I the time to study them, so my contribution is limited to asking basic troubleshooting questions and hoping someone else more knowledgeable with the codebase finds some time to look into it. This is why I would overall advocate to keep the FoF extensions as simple as possible. That's easier to maintain, easier to troubleshoot, and mostly maintenance-free in between major Flarum versions.

More complex extensions are probably better left to specific developers or teams of developers, who know their codebase and can provide more efficient help. That's what I do with my premium extensions, they would be way too complex to offer crowd-sourced support.

Another aspect of reading unanswered bug reports can also be that since Flarum has become so much more popular now, there are a lot of users with edge cases. We don't hear from most of the users with regular use cases, but once in a while, someone tries something in a way that was never done before, and this leaves us with questions where we cannot always provide guidance. Sometimes, addressing those edge cases require fundamentally redesigning an existing extension, and this might not be justifiable as an open-source effort.

CyberGene

To be perfectly frank, I’m also not too sure what’s in it for me in 2.0 besides most probably breaking some extensions.

At the same time the FoF Upload was broken seriously (ZIP files couldn’t be uploaded) for three months with nobody available to fix it. I’ve reported a major issue with FoF Antispam too, and there’s the same lack of response.

On the other hand, it’s open source, so I know I shouldn’t expect much and I’m OK. But what I know for sure is I won’t upgrade to 2.0 soon and once the FoF Antispam is fixed, hence everything is stable and to my expectations, I’m not touching my forum anymore with any upgrades/updates for the life of me 🙂

GreXXL

Thank you for sharing your opinions. A critical dialogue is always welcome. Keeping a product alive and up-to-date is a major responsibility for an Open Source project. There is a definitive need for a new major (and yes, including breaking changes) version of Flarum. You certainly will all have seen the deprivation warning posts - one of the reasons why you sometimes need to update your dependencies, frameworks, etc.

Flarum 2.0 will also bring some new functionality as well as many new features for developers to even better extend Flarum in the future. You will most certainly not see another major version being worked on immediately. After releasing Flarum 2.0 the near future will bring feature and improvement updates.

Of course a major change will mean adoption work for the already existing extensions. There have been efforts made to make the life of developers more easy when updating their extensions for Flarum 2.0. We will support the development community to adopt extensions for the new version so all Flarum users can effectively use the new version.

Open Source software is of course something like build-to-order. More development work will be going towards extensions for the 2.0 release as it makes sense to adopt and improve them in one go for the major update. Bounties have been introduced to allow community to sponsor open source development. As previously mentioned this is only an incentive and still not an ordering system where you can expect results immediately. If you are looking for that there are companies like @glowingblue or Flarum BV that can do custom contracting work.

I think we are happy to have such an involved community here. We have come a long way as a small Open Source project and have certainly picked up the pace to make this a even better platform for your community projects. You can read more about the story of Flarum here: https://discuss.flarum.org/d/36692-10-years-of-flarum/

I am very optimistic for the future that we can balance the active development of Flarum while having a large community of extensions developers and actively maintained extensions.

MrCaspan

Glad to hear all this feedback because again the point of this was not to just complain but to create an open dialog..

One thing that I know is lacking is documentation on how to create an extension. I have been using ChatGPT and trying to do some coding but without knowing the core code and its functionality it's really hard to know what to do..

For example I am extending an extension right now to create a discussion when an event is created seems simple enough.. I know that a Discussion needs to be created and then a post added under it (I only know this because of the migration form Vanilla) Beyond that I have no clue what else I need or should do. What methods or functions or classes SHOULD I call when creating a discussion? Again this is a me learning curve also but if there is no documentation then I need to know the entire code base and understand what everything is and what its doing and why.. I laugh because I don't even know what my code does that I wrote last week 🙂 I am hoping these changes that are being made in 2.0 are things like "I can just call the discussion class and it will tell me what is required and it will do the rest and I don't have to manually call creating the post, updating the discussion updating last and first setting the post number.... maybe this already exist but again without reading all the code its hard to know!!

Trc4

It's really frustrating at times. Even common functions that have been standard on other forums for years only work on Flarum if you have to install and set them up again. In addition, extensions from third-party providers no longer work after updates and/or are no longer developed. This makes it really difficult to build a sustainable community.

ernestdefoe

Trc4 the thing people like about Flarum is that it is light weight and doesn’t come with a lot of bloat. There are some people that use the basic Flarum install because it meets their needs. Yes it sucks at times having to rely on 3rd party extensions but why add bloat and things not every one may need or want.

I used to complain about competing forum software doing the same thing taking out basic features only to have to be replaced by an extension that may or may not cost. A lot of times the competition removes those features to make the base forum software less resource intensive and reload faster. After really sitting back and thinking about it, it makes sense. Does having to rely on 3rd party extensions open up your site to security risks yes it does but honestly so can 1st party extensions as well.

If the developers of Flarum, Invision Community, xenForo, myBb, Woltlab, phpBB, SMF etc added every feature that everybody wanted you wouldn't be able to run it on shared hosting or possible even a VPS and you would need a dedicated server and sites would take 2-3 minutes to load.

So to keep load times and resource utilization down they try to make the software as light as possible.

MrCaspan

ernestdefoe I get what you are saying and I agree this app needs to be lightweight and load fast and run well on shared hosting. But I am confused, that is what it currently does and were not discussing that that needs to change. Extensions are just that, they extend the functionally of the core system. I personally don't want anything added to the core that cannot be turned off if I don't want it. I WANT the ability to turn off what I don't use and purge it from my server. Why even load a code base there or loaded if you don't plan on using it? But Flarum already does this and asking for more development on extension would not change that so I am not sure what you are saying? We're not asking for these features to be added to the core we just want more support for extensions IF someone wants them.

To put it in an analogy, a car is good because it serves a purpose that people need to get from point A to B but a car is not JUST a single thing. A car is a built of many things that work together in synergy, I think of Flarum as the base frame of an electric car. It has the platform and engine all in the base and it works great. ANYTHING can be built on that frame as long as it fits their bolt hole pattern. This allows the users to CHOOSE what body parts and what features they want to add to their car. Problem is the body and features that we have to pick from are very scarce and very simple. So even though the base fame is solid and could possibly be the best base frame in the world.. it does not matter if there is nothing else out there that bolts onto it..

The other side of the coin is the same though. You could have the best, well built, fully featured parts and the most amazing looking body but if you don't have a good base frame to bolt them to they are also useless. So I know there is a balance, everyone wants both but I know that's not the way open source works.. They built the base they are hoping/relying on the community to build what THEY want on top of that! FoF showed us what is possible with their simple body design and parts but they were not designed to be the finally products that we should be using, they are there to create thought and possibility.. We are just hoping since no one else is building these things that maybe they can go a bit further on their development!

ernestdefoe

MrCaspan my response was to @Trc4 about features being removed from core. It wasn’t directed towards you.